just before i started undressing to take a shower to go to an appointment, the door bell rang.
i thought about not answering the door, but then thought what the hell it could be my neighbor, who is a widow and in her 70's, needing some help.. at the door was a frail man about 85+ years old dressed in a shabby sport coat, shirt, tie, and slacks, and a skinny woman about 75+ years old in a long dress that needed to be ironed.
as i grabbed my dog to prevent him from jumping at the screen door, which was partially open, and beating the couple with his tail and making them fall, i thought what am i going to do.
I'm In the middle of reading the book, "Crisis of Conscience," by Raymond Franz. Interesting, inside information, from a man who did eventually follow his conscience.
I have looked at Steve Hassan's website. I plan to get the book you mentioned, and do my homework. I think I've got this bible study starting this week... And I have attended 2 excruciating meetings this month, unrecognized. I have 2 small children, and am not planning to expose them to that experience ever again. So deoressing!
just before i started undressing to take a shower to go to an appointment, the door bell rang.
i thought about not answering the door, but then thought what the hell it could be my neighbor, who is a widow and in her 70's, needing some help.. at the door was a frail man about 85+ years old dressed in a shabby sport coat, shirt, tie, and slacks, and a skinny woman about 75+ years old in a long dress that needed to be ironed.
as i grabbed my dog to prevent him from jumping at the screen door, which was partially open, and beating the couple with his tail and making them fall, i thought what am i going to do.
I'm curious about the comments you post to WTBTS infomercials. Can you explain that? I'm new at this, and want to start planting seeds of doubt, too.
Thanks for any advice.
looking at the public dec 2013 watchtower under bible questions answered it looks like they are saying that the invisible return of christ is completely in the future.
i thought that they always said it started in 1914?
am i reading this wrong?.
For me, it is really hard to get past what the Bible says about the false prophets. Here are a few excerpts from the NWT Bible, that might clarify who you are dealing with, when you listen to the predictions of the Watchtower Society.
Matthew 24:23-25
“23 “Then if anyone says to YOU, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU.”
Matthew 7:15
“15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.”
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
“20 “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him."
Matthew 24:30-31
“30 And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.” (Is he invisible, or do we see him?)
Excerpts From: WATCHTOWER. “New World Translation (bi12) (bi12-E).” Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.
The big problem with using a publishing company, to print millions of books and magazines, is that you can't erase your history. Their original declaration was that Christ's reign began in 1874, and all imperfect men would be destroyed in October of 1914. Now they continue to cling to 1914. Go back and research for yourself... They have predicted the end of "this system" as occurring on several specific dates. I'm sure that Charles Taze Russell did not ever think that we'd still be waiting, 130 years later... Sadly, the men in power still cling with desperation to their false prophecy and Have become drunk with power. They can't turn back now.
Do not be afraid of them. Get out while you can! Don't walk... Run! Keep asking questions. You Are wise to seek the truth about the truth. You are safe here, and you are not alone in your confusion.
i have been waiting for this moment, and it has finally come!
i was actually in the middle of typing in the other thread, about householders who caused you doubts, when a jw rang my doorbell.
my barking german shepherd didnt scare him away, but did knock all his books out of his hand and onto a wet porch, which i really felt bad about.
I am so glad to have found this great resource. I was led here by a link from an article at jwsurvey.org.
It is refreshing to find so many positive, yet varied opinions and experiences from the people here.
Black sheep: I have already shown my hand, I'm afraid. I was not confrontational, but as honest as I could be. I expressed my genuine concern for him and his family. It didn't seem to dissuade him, but instead made him more eager to come back with his wife. Unless he is completely daft and deaf, he could tell I was an opposer. I am a concerned citizen. Maybe when he got back to the car, and told them the things I said, he was warned more about me. But if he's been doing this for 30 years, he must have met someone like me before... ?? I really like your ideas, and will use them. I have a hard time keeping my feelings hidden though.
ABibleStudent: I was never privy to many of their insider guidelines. Maybe his Seeming anxiousness to leave, had to do with the fact that it was just he and I on the porch. Maybe that is why the people in the car were craning their necks so hard to watch us and trying to get his attention? Or was he late for a lunch date? Either way, it is a relief that I won't have to invite him into my home, without a female along. That is a good rule.
Lois: I have no idea how that picture got on there... and I see nowhere to edit it. Haha. Sasha is a good puppy! Her mere size makes people think twice about messing with our family. The only drawback is that our packages sometimes get delayed during the holiday season, when UPS and FedEx hires temporary drivers. I think it was mentioned in a comment on jwsurvey.org, that witnesses say theif numbers are growing, when they are actually shrinking.
Snare: Thanks! I am afraid that it's too late to turn back now. He already knows where I am coming from. I do feel a deep compassion for these lost souls, being forced out to wander from house to house. I'm sure there might be some, but I have yet to meet a JW follower who has ill intent In the ministry work. They sacrifice so much, just to be abused and rejected. It is disheartening to hear people when they talk about the response they get. A video I saw recently, linked through either 4witness.org or 4jehovah.org, had several ex-JW's speaking to a group. One woman said something that just broke my heart... "In all the years that I was out going door to door, not one person tried to witness to me!" The process of mind control is very powerful. Your brain and nervous system are actually pliable and adaptable. It is not the fault of innocent ones, when they become trapped in this Strict religion. This man in particular, being an immigrant, was probably so susceptible and easy to "teach." The JW's came to my door with a simple question... "Do you want to learn more about the Bible?" Heck yeah! Come on in... the way that God has orchestrated this whole jw affair in our family, is amazing. As soon as my restriction is lifted, I am going to post my story. Thanks for your kind encouragement. You never know who is arriving at your door, with doubts already in their mind.
Fernando: great points! I will try to keep it simple. Maybe tackling the new light and the misinterpretation of the prophecy in Matthew, is not the best place t start. Hahaha!
I Have so many issues I want to ask about... It is going to be hard to pick just one.
i just found out that a co-worker of mine is a ex-jw....she's being pressured to go back to the khall...she says everytime she goes to visit her family, they're telling her how jehovah still loves her...blah blah blah...thankfully she has her own apartment!.
i do see how her upbringing in the cult has affected her...she's soft and overly kind, but she's a real sweetheart...the down side: people take advantage of her.. should i tell her that i too am a jw and understands what she's going through with her family or should i just tell her that "spirituality is a personal thing and don't feel guilted into doing something you don't want" ect....the thing is, she talks alot and if i tell her that i'm suppose to be a jw, then the entire workplace will know.... what should i do?
my only aim is to have her not feel guilted in going back...she said her family has been trying to get her back in, but she's resisting it...the other issue, her son stays with her jw sister (she didn't disclose why)...and my co-worker tells me that her son is becoming a "jw convert".. please i need some advice!.
Wow. I have been on this board for only one day, and I can see there are many different types of people here. Just like real human beings, it seems the JW's are not all alike after all. Lately, I have been telling just about anyone who will listen, that I "almost" became a JW. This is not quite true, of course, if I were speaking to someone who knows how the org is actually run... But people at my church asked me to speak to a ladies' fellowship group about a year ago... They called it "from Jehovah's Witness to Christ." i almost passed out when she said that, but also made me realize how specialized this is.
It sounds like you're doing the right thing and using a good approach. Keep it up!
looking at the public dec 2013 watchtower under bible questions answered it looks like they are saying that the invisible return of christ is completely in the future.
i thought that they always said it started in 1914?
am i reading this wrong?.
Yadda yadda:
what prompted this poster to come here and ask the question as his very first post on this forum. This is great because it means more and more puzzled JW's are turning to the internet to try and figure out what the hell is going on. You can always count on this forum to provide 'the truth about the truth' (TTATT).
He was looking at the public Watchtower for December 2013.
It is good to see that people are asking questions!
i have been waiting for this moment, and it has finally come!
i was actually in the middle of typing in the other thread, about householders who caused you doubts, when a jw rang my doorbell.
my barking german shepherd didnt scare him away, but did knock all his books out of his hand and onto a wet porch, which i really felt bad about.
Another thing I'm wondering about the wife... Is she going to be a well-spoken American woman, who will intimidate me?
This man comes from cambodia. Even though he's been here a long time, I still find that to be an advantage For me.
i have been waiting for this moment, and it has finally come!
i was actually in the middle of typing in the other thread, about householders who caused you doubts, when a jw rang my doorbell.
my barking german shepherd didnt scare him away, but did knock all his books out of his hand and onto a wet porch, which i really felt bad about.
Thanks for the encouragement! I have a confession to make... I'm actually a woman. :)
overall, I am very happy with the way it went, as long as he comes back. He seemed to be looking forward to it, kept saying he wanted to bring his wife.
Is that because I'm a woman? My husband is going to try to be home also. He supports this effort, and he also doesn't want me letting strangers in the house. Lol.
I threw a lot of questions at him while he was here. He kept looking into his little binder, but never came up with what he was searching for...
I told him I'd been doing some research about TTATT, and that my husband and I are closely following the new things that have been coming out these last couple of weeks in particular. I hope to get his perspective on some of that. He started talking about the "feeding many with the hands of a few," reminding me that Jesus used the disciples to feed the crowd. I asked him if the JW's simehow inherited that responsibility and he said yes.
I can say that he got me thinking, and hopefully I did the same for him. i will definitely be writing down some of my many questions, and choosing carefully. I liked the story of the atheist who got the JW's to leave, although i also don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water either!
I am appreciative of all the great insight I'm getting here... Thanks so much for the input
looking at the public dec 2013 watchtower under bible questions answered it looks like they are saying that the invisible return of christ is completely in the future.
i thought that they always said it started in 1914?
am i reading this wrong?.
Thanks for clearing that up.
As my JW sister said, "It makes sense!"
I am so confused right now! I think that is the goal. You don't have to understand it, just be confident Jehovah will deliver us.
i have been waiting for this moment, and it has finally come!
i was actually in the middle of typing in the other thread, about householders who caused you doubts, when a jw rang my doorbell.
my barking german shepherd didnt scare him away, but did knock all his books out of his hand and onto a wet porch, which i really felt bad about.
Black Sheep,
i know you are right. I got too confident, since he was so anxious to come back, even though I was asking questions and making statements that revealed me as an opposer. thanks for reminding me I have a long way to go in this learning process. I don't want to totally blow it, my first time trying to reach someone. Thanks for the advice!
